Formation advice

[wraith75]

Hello,

Here's my build (lvl 73) :

:swm::swm::bst:
:femalehero::witc::exo:
:sha::pro::mnk:

Both swordsmen : flame sword and deadly strike.
Main : flame sword and breakdown
Witch : meteor + mana trap + mana recharge (in the middle to annoy cannon-users =) )
Exorcist : speed cast + mana seal
Shaman : blessing + noble sacrifice
Prophet : concentration + rusty axe + broken spear
Monk : awakening + shield of protection + holy guard

Oracle will of course replace shaman and eventually, lady knight one of the swordsmen.

I intend to skip princess, inventor and cannoneer.

I was interested in janissary, but who could he replace ?

Thank you for your advice ;)

[Prima]

If you want a janissary why not just replace one of the swords with him and put main in front? You should be able to tank a focus fire on your main for a while I'd think.

[wraith75]

Good suggestion, although I'm happier with my main behind a tank, you never know :) but it might work alright.

Still got time anyway before getting that janissary, or lady knight.

What do you all think about the build itself ?

I've got a strong front line, 5 melee (including me) to enjoy the prophet buffs, a witch placed in the middle to decrease the artillerymen's potential, and the magic-users at the back.

One question I was asking myself : it's certainly easier to have exo and prophet on the same line to recharge them both with the witch, but who should I put in the second row then ? The monk ? Seems risky.

[wraith75]

Updating my own post, I'm lvl 82 now and my build is as follows :

:swm::swm::bst:
:femalehero::witc::exo:
:pro::ora::mnk:

I was thinking of this, but I'm not sure :

:swm::swm::witc:
:exo::femalehero::bst:
:pro::ora::mnk:

Still not convinced that witches make great frontliners + that'd open myself to row attacks to second row from vikings, axe mains and BTs (not to mention maniacs) and, even worse, to a spear attack to my monk then, wouldn't it ? Not to mention I'd lose the small advantage I have against cannon-users when the witch is in the middle.
Any advice from pro-witch frontliners ?

[Locksley]

if monk running SoP, do this.

:witc:
:malehero:
:pro:

Because prophet, a ranged unit, takes less dmg from melee, she is generally safe. I'm not sure if i fall under the category of pro, but I guess, lvl 99, div 6 and stuck there for over 20 matches (i think) is a good thing. My 'recent' matches record refused to update itself >.<

Truth is, thats how my "front witch" column goes.

:witc:
:spm:
:exo: (the other 2 in same row are oracle & monk.)

remember, when running frontline witch, remember a few things.

1. Always have a back-up tank that is not within the reach of melee units. In this case, probably ur exo. so you could swap.
2. If ppl start magic spamming witch, or jani goes after her, swap her back, and into the middle of ur 2nd row (the block-cannon-position), the merc that swaps up in front must be a back-up tank.
3. Watever it is, NO VULNERABLE UNITS (like ur monk) behind her ALWAYS unless you have no choice cuze ur mercs died.
4. Preferable mercs behind are those that do not stand up to magic spam, but have decent physical def. vikings, BT and mains with SoP monk are popular 'under-the-witch' mercs.

[wraith75]

Hi Locksley,

Great advice, thanks a lot, hadn't thought of all those parameters.
I shall put it to the test. And yes, I do have SoP on my monk.

Now, thinking about the more-or-less-distant future, I'd like a lady knight, who will of course replace a swordsman (no-brainer) and also a janissary, but I have no idea who to store for him.

As you can see, I was playing with a melee-heavy build, 5 melee + prophet. I know melee has been nerfed, but, not being a hardcore player, I'm not about to train 4 new mercs at the same time to make up for it.
Still, I'm having a really hard time deciding who I should put in the merc room for him.

I'm more of a melee/AoE with meteor, beast summon and break down, so I'd like to keep those skills (and attached mercs) if possible. I don't intend on becoming a DoT or stun build, that'd involve too many changes.

Any janissary (re)placing advice would be welcome, thanks.

[wraith75]

Ok, I've tried the witch in front, main SoP behind and prophet in the back, but it's not working as good as I thought :
* Prophet still doesn't dodge enough damage when subjected to a spear-type attack (she's lvl 68 mind you, maybe it gets better after lvl 80 upgrade ?).
* SoP seriously depletes the monk's mana, even more now of course that the main is in pseudo-front row.
* The witch gets killed in one round by insane eagles (ok, in this case, that could happen if she was in the middle row too, but they still mostly attack my front row anyway). She's lvl 81 and has +2 Pyramid gear, maybe not awesome, but that should be enough to keep her alive.
* And I have this new problem with awakening, since, with the cross-pattern, I can't awaken my main and my left and right front row mercs at the same time for example.

Of course, I'm talking mostly about 3 mobs-vs-just me battles, works better in 1-on-1, where I don't have to use awakening. Still, I will persevere and try to find the best combination.

Still need advice on janissary please (see my former post), thank you !

[Ghost]

:witc::malehero::lak:
:vik::exo::jan: *
:sha::mnk::pro:
something like this?
*you can put exo in front too and hero behind
for me you don't need all that swordsmans
viking if is northen can be in front too
like this:
:exo::vik::lak:
:malehero::witc::jan:
:sha::pro::mnk:

but since that janissery for me is useless in this formation...

[wraith75]

Thanks Ghost,

I could indeed do something like this :

:exo::lak::bst:
:femalehero::witc::jan:
:pro::ora::mnk:

I'm no viking fan mind you :)
With exo with guardian stones, still 4 melee to be worth it with my prophet, that could indeed work.
I'm still a little hesitant to part from both my swordsmen since they make such a solid front line, but I see no other way to welcome a janissary in this party.

The question now is more : in such a team (more PvE than PvP anyway), does a janissary have a place ? And will his attack power (damage only, no stun build here obviously and oracle won't have Seth's Will, but Vortex) really make up for the loss of a better front line defense ?

[Locksley]

Ok, I've tried the witch in front, main SoP behind and prophet in the back, but it's not working as good as I thought :
* Prophet still doesn't dodge enough damage when subjected to a spear-type attack (she's lvl 68 mind you, maybe it gets better after lvl 80 upgrade ?).
* SoP seriously depletes the monk's mana, even more now of course that the main is in pseudo-front row.
* The witch gets killed in one round by insane eagles (ok, in this case, that could happen if she was in the middle row too, but they still mostly attack my front row anyway). She's lvl 81 and has +2 Pyramid gear, maybe not awesome, but that should be enough to keep her alive.
* And I have this new problem with awakening, since, with the cross-pattern, I can't awaken my main and my left and right front row mercs at the same time for example.

Of course, I'm talking mostly about 3 mobs-vs-just me battles, works better in 1-on-1, where I don't have to use awakening. Still, I will persevere and try to find the best combination.

Still need advice on janissary please (see my former post), thank you !

That "witch frontline thing" is more for pvp. Sorry. in pve, witch is in front is generally not advised cuze mobs can take her down fast if they focus fire. And SoP keeps activating a lot when main is getting hit over & over, i know, my monk runs out of mp fast that way, so in pve, I dun put him under witch,

I actually put him in 3rd row, and witch in 2nd row for pve only. what i suggested was for pvp.

-------------JANI advice below------------

in pve, however, a tank frontline typically wins, esp when every boss fight is just another endurance match at high lvls. I'd have a swordie over the jani.

[wraith75]

Hello Locksley,

I'll try it in PvP, haven't done that for some time since I was levelling the oracle (went back to div 12 :eek:).
And I'll keep my usual formation for PvE.

About janissary, like Ghost was suggesting, and with my preferences, I don't see another solution than storing a swordsman, but I agree with you about a strong front line and I'd definitely miss that.
I guess I'll still level a janissary, just to try him out anyway, and switch when appropriate.
I think he'll have his uses, if his attack is powerful enough. With my build, except for the beast master, I lack multi-hitters (no spearmen, no vikings, no gunners,...).

Thank you very much for the advice ! :cool:

[wraith75]

Back to my current formation, I'm 95 now and planning to get a lady knight (of course) and a janissary.

My main concern is the frontline. As previously mentioned in another post, for lack of money in investing in main-only trinkets, be it in PvE or PvP, my main can’t tank for a long time.

Another thing I noticed is that, in individual dungeons, my frontline, composed of two swordies, is always the last to stand (helped by the prophet of course) compared to my partners, who often have a viking or even a spearman.
The claws (the big crabs from ind 90) almost kill their vikings with only one of their magic attacks. They need four to kill one of my swordsmen...

As I’m guessing it’s only getting worse in terms of magic attack damage on the front row, I am more and more thinking of getting the max defense frontline : swordsman – lady knight – swordsman, and storing the beast master. Although I really like her in terms of damage, beast summon isn’t much better than break down and she’s still very sensitive to magic.

Since physical damage is back, the swordsmen are not that weak anymore – ok, the same could be said for the beast and viking too of course – and flame sword spam has always been effective in PvP and against some monsters too.
I’m also considering storing the witch for the janissary.

So I would go from (this is PvE here, I'll of course change the exo's position for PvP) :

:swm::swm::bst:
:exo::witc::femalehero:
:pro::ora::mnk:

to :

:swm::lak::swm:
:exo::jan::femalehero:
:pro::ora::mnk:

What do you think ?

[Locksley]

if you were to go with the new formation, you would have more "synergy" if you were a gun main - in addition to flamesword, light slash, you would have scorchin bullets to pile magic, and stun pressure as well. a cannon main works too, but scorching bullets just more dmging than dots - and makes you a spike dmg-stun hybrid.

[wraith75]

Well, it does make sense, but I'd rather not change my main's class.
I know it's become common among high levels, but I think I'll stick to my original choice. Thanks for the advice though.

Oh, by the way, I've seen people Seth willing a front row of swordsmen and a lady knight, isn't that strange (and/or dangerous for the front line's survivability) ?

[Locksley]

this typically occurs in pve, rarely in pvp.

1. they're confident no freeze is coming
2. they're sure of winning and just want to speed it up.

if its neither of the above, then they're noob.

[Zpirit]

Oh, by the way, I've seen people Seth willing a front row of swordsmen and a lady knight, isn't that strange (and/or dangerous for the front line's survivability) ?

Really bad move, sething single target mercs is worthless.