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View Full Version : Atlantica 101 - an attempt to break down and explain the economics behind atlantica


xenapan
04-19-2010, 03:57 AM
Atlantica Economy 101.
I guess I've become bored enough to spend time and study the economy of Atlantica Online. To those who have a few hundred million under their belt, this should be no news at all. To those of you just starting I shall attempt to expain how and why the economy works as it does.
First of all I will address the standard definitions: supply and demand. Supply is where items are generated and put into the game. Be it from killing stuff (normal gameplay), grinding/farming (intensive gameplay aimed purposefully at one specific item or set of items), special events (giveaways, invasions) and item mall. I will also sometimes catergorize items into purpose within the game. For instance, armors and weapons are improvement drops, as are growth vials, skill books and crystals as they improve your team as you gather them. One distinct characteristic of improvement drops are that once you hit a certian limit, they are worthless for your team, but can always be sold for money. A second catergory would be craft drops, these items are the bulk of the game and are what takes up most of your inventory space. They are used for crafting items as ingredients but otherwise have no impact on your gameplay as you collect them. Craft drops are always stackable items (you can fit 10000 items in a stack).
Demand is where people want items. Generally it is generated through introduction (putting in a new item into the game), practical (where players are required to buy certian items to continue playing. This also includes skill books, growth vials, crystals, jewels, as well as the more general weapons and armor to be able to kill stuff at the level), removal (sources are removed or nerfed - eg box drop rate nerf).

Supply as a general in Atlantica is designed to improve as you level up. The higher level you are, the more value the items that can possibly drop (this is kinda a given unless you want a really dull game) and as you level up, the supply of items on that level drops. The best example of this is boxes: At level 1, you start in forest of spirits, once you start, at worst 1/10 drops are spirit boxes or enchant stones or commodity boxes. All items you would otherwise be in need of to continue your gameplay. Sure the game feeds you alot of trash items: salt, iron sand, maple, clay, copper flakes and the like. But otherwise, there is a fairly substatial amount of improvement drops. This continues until you hit insect nest, and here you find the first place where the items you get are not immediately usable (insect boxes containing assassin/destroyer/savior items are level 35) at level 25, everything still uses enchant stone I but once you hit insect nest, you start gathering insect boxes which contain the first of the rank II items. As such, there tends to be a severe lack of enchant stones though the other improvement drops are quite steady - since sea palace ashen crystals are dropping fairly common and commodity boxes upgrade from I to II fairly un-noticably. Though as most people who play realize, insect equipment is the worst of all equipment sets. It's power is only slightly above angkor wat and prices go from reasonable to unreasonable very quickly. Enchant stones formerly being common drops are now semi rare, and market prices of enchant II stones are through the roof (and will continue to be). When I first started playing enchant IIs were 20k a piece. Now enchant IIs are 60k a piece. On the other hand, insect boxes were roughly 1500 when I started and are roughly 2000-3000 now. So +0 is entirely feasible to use but enchanting is out of the question.

At this point I would like to define some of the game design principles used in this. The first is asymmetrical supply this is caused by two factors. A) Enchant stones IIs are fairly rare compared to insect boxes (I know. its roughly 8 boxes to 6 stones but let me continue)
B) Enchant stones are needed in greater numbers than boxes is the real kicker. Because of the way enchant stones work, the higher the level the item, the greater the disproportion of enchant stones needed to enchant an item. +1 takes 1 stone and 2 items and a +2 takes 2 +1s (so 2 stones +4 items) plus another 2 stones which makes it even. But past that, the number of stones required increases quite rapidly until it is practically double at +10 1024 items vs 2036 stones. Thus enchant stones are the limiting factor (or at least they are in terms of the quality of your equipment). By this I mean that the limiting factor (enchant stone IIs) are what make insect boxes (and all the other rank II boxes) worthless. Because the supply of enchant IIs, insect boxes have very little value in terms of being usable equipment as a) they are not cost effective (with the stones being well over 10000% the cost of a box) b) since they have no fixed price, the market for enchant IIs dries up fairly quickly with no way to recover (at least in the course of normal gameplay by people in the rank II area 30-60s).
This brings me to my second principle which is higher level supply. Basically this means that supply of these items is generally created by people outside the level range of the people that will use it. In our example, enchant IIs are a good example because a player will never get enough enchant IIs at the level when they would use it. However once they pass the level that they use the item, it is turned into a source of income for them. Thus, generally speaking the majority of enchant IIs are not put up for sale in the market by rank IIs but rank IIIs which have passed the use of rank II equipment and are selling it for money.

I generally consider rank II to be where most players quit. Generally speaking players will give up (or end up begging) for money to buy enchant IIs since it is such a chore (and impossiblity) to collect enough for their use. Most players last till 50 and really hit the curve point of the game where the lack of equipment and the increased EXP curve forces them into a corner: they cannot upgrade their equipment and they cannot level up with the equipment they have. This is why most newbie guilds are filled with level 35-50s that have basically lost interest in the game and never sign on anymore.

Anyhow, this ends the first of many such posts.

xenapan
04-30-2010, 08:42 PM
So the second part of the series Atlantica 101 brought to you by Xenapan.

Income levels are based on your level. Material prices and drops are based on income level as are activities e.g. dungeons, daily quests, resettable quests, storyline quests.

The first income level is newbies 1-20: generally speaking all the quest prizes are towards filling characters up with equipment, materials are generally trash used for crafting later, and monsters and quests are designed to be very easy. At this stage, daily quests are fairly worthless in terms of prizes and doing storyline quests will quickly accelerate you through to the next level.

The second level is beginner 20-50: Materials are fairly useful for crafting items in the level range, but income is fairly minimal from activities quest related. Exceptions being enchant II stones and unrelated activities - treasure hunting, selling items at columbus, arena etc which tend to start being discovered at this time.

The third level is intermediate 50-90: This is the first tier where drops start to make a difference in terms of value. By reaching this point, there is a distinct jump in value of items recieved: equipment boxes start getting less regular, minibosses start showing up in enemy groups, equipment dropped will be closer to your level as opposed to immediately wearable, and both enchant stones and boxes will be frustratingly rare compared to the previous levels. Thus the first price jumps from 1-5k for newbie and beginner boxes dissapears and you reach the first few boxes used for dismantling (for exp and shards), at columbus, and enchanted equipment quickly becomes more valuable as there is much less in comparison. Also, by this point all the fixed prices for equipment are removed leaving market forces to determine prices on boxes and items. I would argue this is really where the game begins and the tutorials end. It is also the point at which you will need to start actively farming to get enough of anything you need. C class mercs come into play proper (50 is a good level to start farming giant crystals for beast trainers) and the majority of the recruitment quests come in here. (witch, exorcist, princess, prophet, oracle, cannoneer) It also means this is the first real oppurtunity to start resetting quests for profit but exp is fairly limited as any grinding will make it fairly easy to level up. That said, it should be noticed that the real income starts in the next tier.

The fourth level is the high levels. 90-120: These are the levels in which most of the game's real "content" is situated. Individual dungeons tend to drop more boxes (and better quality boxes) than areas after shogun castle but this is where the grind comes in as everyone should be repeating these dungeons on a regular basis. Also at level 90 the best source of historia seals comes in near berlin and should also be completed daily as much as possible for the collectomaniac title. Also at this point equipment tends towards the end game. It starts getting expensive. With volcano historically being 200k a box and now 300k on argos, conquerers from under 1m to now 1.4m the jump in cost is fairly significant increasing the price of a +4 set (+4 = 16 pieces * 6 pieces per merc. helm, gauntlet, boots, body, pants/orb, weapon) 96*300k = 32mil. vs the next upgrade 96*134.4m. Upgrading all your mercs at every single tier is practically impossible and as you get through the levels, upgrades to your equipment will slow down. The good and bad news is the exp curve kicks in starting 95, then again at 100 then even more so at 110 which will balance levels between mercs and any box drops will be more significant in income. Especially since past volcano every box is worth at least twice what the previous is worth. Freezing boxes at round 3m will quickly add up. Also in addition to boxes, individual dungeon rewards will drop freezing level equipment. 90/94 drop level 90 equipment with level 100 damage and roughly 95 stats. 98 will drop rings with 95 in the prime stat. 101 rewards are all nostrafu boxes which contain divine level defense equipment but at level 100 (which will give you an advantage in upgrading equipment). Effectively, individual dungeon rewards are very important early on when you first hit the level, but past 110 they start being less useful. ID105 contains depraved level axe or bow of your choice and is very important to consistently complete it as it boosts your mercs alot (Depraved being the third highest level quality of equipment in the game). Crafting becomes fairly important as a source of income and also as a method to get useful equipment. Materials turn from trash to treasure as you suddenly need items starting in the hundreds and ending in the hundred thousands.

The fifth level is the end game. 120-130: This is where its easier to get rich. The catch is to get rich you need to be rich. Getting past 120 is alot of grinding and making money. Income becomes fairly unimportant at this point as reaching 121+ would mean being able to afford phoenix equipment to defeat the bosses for the 120 upgrade quest. Experience here is huge meaning crafting gets very easy when you are producing 500k workload a fight. It also means you will be spending most of your time selling what you get as it is no longer even remotely useful other than crafting materials. This is also where jackpot becomes very profitable as you can find divine, nix and even DG on a more regular basis which will allow any regular player to get alot richer much faster. This is the point where atlas tends to be a standard for upgrading equipment as you simply cannot craft enough equipment to be useful. Also, the amount of materials required for crafting is exorbiant, the cost high and enchanting is simply impossibly past +3 or so. Most materials you need will need to be jackpotted as nix crafts cost easily 180-220m while dg is closer to 250-260m.

Locksley
05-01-2010, 12:50 AM
- First part was cool, and I din really have any issues with it. I'm just wondering abt ur lvl and when u started (I can get an estimate from forum joining date, but thats far from reliable). Just commenting on a few parts.

The fourth level is the high levels. 90-120: These are the levels in which most of the game's real "content" is situated. Individual dungeons tend to drop more boxes (and better quality boxes) than areas after shogun castle but this is where the grind comes in as everyone should be repeating these dungeons on a regular basis.

- Remember to jackpot! While its not compulsory, these are your easiest sources of boxes. there's a jackpot manipulation trick you can do with a fren to collect only boxes while ur fren keeps the junk.

Also at level 90 the best source of historia seals comes in near berlin and should also be completed daily as much as possible for the collectomaniac title. Also at this point equipment tends towards the end game. It starts getting expensive. With volcano historically being 200k a box and now 300k on argos, conquerers from under 1m to now 1.4m the jump in cost is fairly significant increasing the price of a +4 set (+4 = 16 pieces * 6 pieces per merc. helm, gauntlet, boots, body, pants/orb, weapon) 96*300k = 32mil. vs the next upgrade 96*134.4m. Upgrading all your mercs at every single tier is practically impossible and as you get through the levels, upgrades to your equipment will slow down.

- Most people skip lvl 95 and sometimes lvl 97 gear and go from lvl 90 to lvl 100 gear in this scenario. This is where people resort to vulcanus cuze enchant is the shit given current prices. not quite worth it busting atlas at lvl 90-lvl 100 stage.

The good and bad news is the exp curve kicks in starting 95, then again at 100 then even more so at 110 which will balance levels between mercs and any box drops will be more significant in income. Especially since past volcano every box is worth at least twice what the previous is worth. Freezing boxes at round 3m will quickly add up. Also in addition to boxes, individual dungeon rewards would be one freezing level equipment. 90/94 provide level 90 equipment with level 100 damage and roughly lvl 95 stats. 98 will provide rings that are approximately lvl 95 in the prime stat, upon completion.

Unlike ind 90/94, for ind 98, you cannot choose the ring.

- the actual lvl 100 gear is better overall than the above mentioned equipment from ind 90/94/98, but these are a cheaper substitute than getting freezing gear. Do mention that the gear could be real lucky drop from the boss too. I edited a bit of the above.

101 rewards are all nosferatu boxes which contain divine level defense equipment but at level 100 (which will give you an advantage in upgrading equipment). Effectively, individual dungeon rewards are very important early on when you first hit the level, but past 110 they start being less useful. ID105 contains depraved level axe or bow of your choice and is very important to consistently complete it as it boosts your mercs alot (Depraved being the third highest level quality of equipment in the game). Crafting becomes fairly important as a source of income and also as a method to get useful equipment. Materials turn from trash to treasure as you suddenly need items starting in the hundreds.

- As to crafting, certain crafts do make money, but not so for equipment crafting unless you are lucky with the +2, +3 and so on. And all crafts suck in a good portion of money and only get profitable later. Equipments stay horrible in profits even at DG level unless you obtain +1 min. +0 = loss (dismantle for elements or sell gear directly = loss). I removed that exaggeration there, dun scare the newbies. i have attempted to craft jewels in bulk, and find myself limited to abt 500+ because my craft component cannot go beyond 10k (elements would be the limiting factor). no such thing as hundred thousand needed in craft mats. PRICE, on the other hand, is the thing that can go into hundreds of thousands.

The fifth level is the end game. 120-130: This is where its easier to get rich. The catch is to get rich you need to be rich. Getting past 120 is alot of grinding and making money. Income becomes fairly unimportant at this point as reaching 121+ would mean being able to afford phoenix equipment to defeat the bosses for the 120 upgrade quest. Experience here is huge meaning crafting gets very easy when you are producing 500k workload a fight. It also means you will be spending most of your time selling what you get as it is no longer even remotely useful other than crafting materials. This is also where jackpot becomes very profitable as you can find divine, nix and even DG on a more regular basis which will allow any regular player to get alot richer much faster.

This is the point where atlas tends to be a standard for upgrading equipment as you simply cannot craft enough equipment to be useful. Also, the amount of materials required for crafting is exorbiant, the cost high and enchanting is simply impossibly past +3 or so. Most materials you need will need to be jackpotted as nix crafts cost easily 180-220m while dg is closer to 250-260m.

- Income still matters all the way. I know of lvl 120 people who still do NOT have nix gear and count on enhanced divine/darkest night/depraved gear* to get thru due to the relatively huge price hike between those gears and nix (*most skip depraved gear really). and I did the lvl 120 quest in darkest night gear lol, not nix. I skipped directly to DG once I could afford after I finished the quest.

- As much as workload is decent, experience gain is higher, but the exp needed to lvl also takes another steep hike up and its worse than the jumps at lvl 95 and lvl 100 (in terms of percentage from the previous lvl). Finishing the ENTIRE LVL 124 QUEST CHAIN CANNOT EVEN TAKE A LVL 124 TO LVL 125 AT ALL. And that you have absolutely no good source of exp save repeating hwarang quest and doing all the daily stuff. This is how bad it gets.

- "It also means you will be spending most of your time selling what you get as it is no longer even remotely useful other than crafting materials." I actually dump the trash I get if it doesn't come in handy for crafting. if its not handy for my crafts, its generally cheap and crappy besides a few exceptions.

- "you can find divine, nix and even DG on a more regular basis which will allow any regular player to get alot richer much faster." You gotta be kidding me. I have never found a single nix box throughout the ENTIRE LVL 120 QUEST CHAIN, BOTH MAIN QUEST & UPGRADE QUEST. My only sources of nix would have been the quest rewards and weekly invasions. I've not seen any "regular DG" drop at all. Again, the ONE DG box I have is from invasion. I've seen more than enuff jackpots going on and heard more than enuff stories, and I've yet to know of anyone actually putting a DG box into jackpot. nix box, yes for sure, not DG.

so, how regular is your DG drop really?

xenapan
05-01-2010, 01:13 AM
just a few notes...
a) i never told anyone to upgrade every tier. i said it was practically impossible to. meaning dont.
b) when you jackpot you dont jackpot FOR boxes. you jackpot away boxes. everyone knows that.
c)boss drops of dungeon rewards are so rare its not even worth mentioning. ive done all the dungeons hundreds of times (overall not each one) and ive seen maybe 4 dungeon rewards so its probably about 1% or less.
d) how many times did it take for you to kill boss in darkest night? :P the AOE tends to kill... everyone. and that was taken from the main forum 120 upgrade guide which helps alot.
e) exp is easy if you are after it. grind in van gogh/train/canyon. oh wait that takes dg/nix :p
f) it was YOUR ASSUMPTION that thought i meant DG boxes. dg drops as actual items in coyote and places like the train. i would expect thats one of the things a 121+ does regularly. it doesnt drop everywhere this im aware of. and nix boxes drop rarely all over the place. MY question is.. what are YOU killing that doesnt drop DG/nix? vangogh has nix boxes and past that everything else has DG drops. note that i didnt say DG BOXES. i said divine, nix and DG.

Locksley
05-01-2010, 01:32 AM
a) i never told anyone to upgrade every tier. i said it was practically impossible to. meaning dont.

- just a tip on what is being skipped, and what people do to get more +++ at that stage.

b) when you jackpot you dont jackpot FOR boxes. you jackpot away boxes. everyone knows that.

- Duh. I know too. I didn't mean jackpotting the boxes. I mean using the ind dungeons to collect boxes for watever you are jackpotting.

c)boss drops of dungeon rewards are so rare its not even worth mentioning. ive done all the dungeons hundreds of times (overall not each one) and ive seen maybe 4 dungeon rewards so its probably about 1% or less.

- yeah sucks too. but still should be noted.

d) how many times did it take for you to kill boss in darkest night? :P the AOE tends to kill... everyone. and that was taken from the main forum 120 upgrade guide which helps alot.

- ONCE. really. HG helps ALOT. so does the guide. I HG the midline, which would be a row full of mercs that would have been killed anyway. Aoe kills everything but monk, oracle, main. I save 3 more mercs (one of which is exo for speedcast) when I time my HG well, and I finished all 3 bosses with my crappy gears (850k might) with 3 mercs dead. All I busted was 2 ress scrolls (I dun use judg/freezing in case my merc dies and wastes the scroll). then I didn't have to use any scrolls once I've got the adds down.

Bless pot + deathproof + guard frontline helps contribute to survival early on when the adds are still alive.

e) exp is easy if you are after it. grind in van gogh/train/canyon. oh wait that takes dg/nix :p

- still is a bore and still takes a long while. Its not easy finding a party, but precisely cuze its hard finding a party, ppl will accept pretty much everyone, so I get to come along.

f) it was YOUR ASSUMPTION that thought i meant DG boxes. dg drops as actual items in coyote and places like the train. i would expect thats one of the things a 121+ does regularly. it doesnt drop everywhere this im aware of. and nix boxes drop rarely all over the place. MY question is.. what are YOU killing that doesnt drop DG/nix? vangogh has nix boxes and past that everything else has DG drops. note that i didnt say DG BOXES. i said divine, nix and DG.

- I've not gotten any nix/DG drops from van gogh, train and canyon. coyote runs hasn't given me boxes either. okay, I got 2 beast soul books for show from coyote. And dun lump nix and DG along with divine. divine is waaaay easier to get than those two.