Market Sellers above Fixed Price and Undercutting Rant

[Newell]

We all know they are idiots. The people who list above fixed price and think they will sell it.

But then you have people who claim they use it for storage. Well, sometimes the price is so high, they could actually buy the item again when needed for the amount of tax they pay. So if you list a 100g item for 5k and the fixed price is 900g, and tax is 2%, well ****, just sell it for 100g, if it doesn't sell, you have it, if it does, the market price will more then likely stay the same.

Its flabbergasting how idiotic some people are. It is a fixed price for christs sake.

And then, on personal experience. I spiked the asura box price to 25k after it settled at about 9k, I bought out all the boxes at 9k. But then, right off the bat, someone sells a lot of boxes for 5k lower, at 20k. WHY? (And don't say, time is worth the lower amt of money or some **** like that) If it is at 25k, then mark it a little lower, not 1/5th the price!! IT WILL SELL if everyone signs the unwritten code of keeping it at that price.

Not 7 hours later it was back to 9k. It is there loss, my boxes were from the gambler, I paid nothing for them an I sold many at 25k before, so I know the people accept that price.

It is amazing. Some people say American citizens are the least educated in economics. I fully agree with this statement and I am an American. But I took it upon myself t learn the fundamentals.

Sometimes I wish there was a global message button I could press, so I can inset some common sense into everyone's head.

"There little kids, blah blah blah" Well they are stupid, instead of teaching them Spanish from that rip off of a sesame street show, teach them economics so they don't blow their money as they grow up. Simple. Who the hell needs to learn Spanish before they are in high school anyways. Even then, many colleges don't even require a language course unless your going into some non high paying job. (Broad statement)

~End Rant~

[Ferishi]

Taking advantage of stupid people is one of the best ways to get rich in any MMO, I've found.

[LostCause]

As for the fix price issue there is nothing you can say but just look and say o well he is wasting his slot or money posting it.

As for ppl who lower the price you cant really complain. Not everyone is thinking the same and holds the same value. In you mind you are looking to make the maximum amount of money for you item. Another person might look at it hmm i dont really need the cash let me lower the price so someone else can get a good deal and afford this item. There could be multiple reason for him to lower the price and it is free market and it is up to them to price what they wish. If he wish to bring down the price of the item that is his/her goal to post the item up for a lower price. You cant really complain as that si how the free market works.

[cfk]

Taking advantage of stupid people is one of the best ways to get rich in any MMO, I've found.

This.

Same as in real life.

[LtKillroy]

I undercut failry significantly for 2 reasons:
Sell the item faster
I hate it when I want to sell 1 item, set it 1-3% less then next highest, then someone sells 20 at once for 1% less than me. Again, it's about speed. But at the point I'm at I sell spirit items and craft matierials, so very little over 1000 gold.

[sayw]

just asking

tele license 230k
action fishing 690k

is it ok? yeah i saw people got >5mil

so just asking is it ok for that prices

[Locksley]

I sold tele license[adv] for 1.5mil each, and people do buy that.

[Kaiten]

Tele licenses are one of the fastest licenses to go. BIG DEMAND

As for the rant, yes it does perplex me why some people undercut prices. However, I've also come to understand some of the possible reasons.
Mainly, The item is taking up space and unnecessary. Instead of taking up an inventory spot, put it in market. Since they plan to use the market spot, they would like to get rid of the item itself asap. The lower the cost, the better the chance of it disappearing. By undercutting the price by say 20%, this jumps the gap from just simply cutting prices by saw a few hundred. Which means, less competition.

Also, keep in mind, the game is not only played by Americans...the game is worldwide. As far as I know, the some of the prize winners of the game were not Americans. One of which was German.

[Kelnari]

I must be one of the few people that absolutely loves the market system. Reminds me of RL. =P

[Zpirit]

That's how the in-game econ works in EVERY game. People always undercut huge in hopes of a quick sale.

And for your info, time is priceless, what you should have done is buy out every box below 25k. Which is what it takes to keep the price up, if your pocket isn't deep enough then you shouldn't play the pricing game.

There are many people that are setting the price floor on my server for dragon crystals, I know some that are holding 500+ cause they stick true to their price floor.

They would put 100 crystals up at the floor price, and buy out anything that comes below it. And because they buy all the cheap ones right away, people are stuck buying theirs at their floor price. One guildie walks away with 10mil from that alone, daily.

[MiaFLSurf]

The best way to cut costs and actually MAKE money is to buy up all the undercutters.... if your bankroll is high enough.

Buy up the low priced items that people list, and resell at the right time for higher..

[synd]

I guess everyone who has a somewhat decent grasp of how supply and demand works has somehow had complaint about the "immaturity" of the sellers in the market. But this in itself is quite immature, in my opinion. It's a free market, and the only way to beat it (and earn some money) is to outthink and outsmart everyone else.

It's a game within the game. And somehow, what you learn from the in game economy reflects on real life economy too!

[SparkGun]

The best way to cut costs and actually MAKE money is to buy up all the undercutters.... if your bankroll is high enough.

Buy up the low priced items that people list, and resell at the right time for higher..

It actually depends on the item, if theres a huge quantity of it, theres chances your technique will fail.

[Zpirit]

It actually depends on the item, if theres a huge quantity of it, theres chances your technique will fail.

Quantity don't matter if you can afford to buy them all, it's how obtainable it is that will make the difference.

For example: the item is produced 100x per minute, the demand for it is 10x per minute.

Sure you make money selling the 10x at your floor price assuming you buy the cheaper one before them, but you'll be piling up stocks higher and higher trying to hold your floor price, and eventually it'll fall when you run out of cash.

[kaiser99]

The market is really not stable now...
I have saw ppl just sell below the fixed price by 1 gold....
I arent saying it is wrong or wat, but there is certain way to label your price, it depends on how much you have VS how much is there on the market~~
This is how i making moeny thru crafting lol

[methane]

Well i do undercutting everytime. But i know its not too good but hey. I craft a lot so if i dont get rid of them. They will surely flood my inventory. The main thing is that when you want to undercut, be sure to know a limit. Some idiots in the market is undercutting until the actual price of the crafting and profit are like so close. It makes you barely earning anything.

Those people are spoiling the market........And one more thing to note. I don't undercut things to spoil price. Only certain items i want to get rid of fast like armors and gaunlets and such.

[Teesa]

i wont buy those items that is 1 gold lesser than the fix price, cheaper than 1 gold, i might as well buy the item from fix price, imagine if u are selling at 6000 when 1min later someone sells at 5999

[MiaFLSurf]

I have made about... 1 mill a week buying up cheap items from undercutters and reselling later in the week... Weekend nights usually.

Its an amazingly easy way to cash

[Newell]

i wont buy those items that is 1 gold lesser than the fix price, cheaper than 1 gold, i might as well buy the item from fix price, imagine if u are selling at 6000 when 1min later someone sells at 5999

I do buy items that are high in demand and 1 gold under fixed price. It justs helps that person and I rather keep my money in the flow.

[XaatXuun]

I love the Fixed price feature in the game.

I also do not see how helping others by selling lower price (below fixed) is hurting the market, only thing it hurts is the seller selling above fixed income.

only problem I see with pricing too low, is hurting the crafter, not able to get their money back. That is bad and does hurt.

the players that price spirit items, less then 10g, they are losing, would it not have been better to get 10 gold from a merchant ???

I see a lot of items that are over priced, and on one server (forgot which) extremely over priced. I find it cheaper to just buy non + items, and enchant them, is cheaper then the price the + item I want is selling for. I have no idea where some of these players figure in their prices, but seems they need to pay a lil more attention to the price it cost to make the same thing

[l3g3nd]

i saw tele license went for 3m once .... o well everyone cant live without it lol

[sayw]

thats what i said

its not a chance to gain money

a chance to got 100k in a day is like 0.02%

[chocomog]

hey op - we'll sell for whatever the **** price we want; screw you and your global messages. the beauty of a free market.

[danicrai]

i believe the same thing .. most of the time i undercut prices too .. but not by a huge margin ..

every time i come back from questing and grinding my inv is packed with stuff i dont need .. like 20 expert boxes and 10 types of mats i dont use 50x each .. ofcourse i'm gonna put them dirt cheap on the market because i dont need them, i got them for free, and i want to change them to money

but starting today i'm not gonna sell the boxes anymore .. just try my luck with them and keep the mats i need for me and sell the rest

[shiva]

i undercut sometimes but its usualy by like 500g
eg lowest item is 11000g my price would be 10500
this usualy ensures my sale as the market runs VERY quickly and the 11k price would be snapped up quickly too when mine is gone and the market goes up again

along these lines i've noticed the market on a healthy fluctuation every day going up and down sometimes quite dramticaly so the people who wanna sell can have a very good day one day and the people who wanna buy can have an equaly good day the next

some items when they go down stay down for a while (gm reward crystals are one hell of an example) like the fabled dragon crystal market price crash - got one from a box, made my 1st million, got another one and made like 200k but in the end the price will creap slowly back up just gotta wait it out i guess

[Demon]

some people put above fixed price as storage.

[Zinrae]

some people put above fixed price as storage.

Which, as I think someone pointed out earlier, is a horrible idea, because you end up coming out behind. If it has a fixed price you can just sell it and then buy back later should you ever need it. You might lose a little money, but it wouldn't be much more than the market fee anyway. Plus, the prices may come down, as they tend to do on quite a few mats over time.

[Ruggan]

Undercutting is a personal choice, I don't know about you but I undercut some things by 1,000 or more when I want to clear out the space for selling more stuff - when the item price is 250k+, 1,000 is a small fraction of the price to allow it to clear quickly.

[MiaFLSurf]

I agree - undercutting is fine if its to get rid of inventory...and honestly, Im mostly a buyer, not a serller...and I love it :)

[Marisa the Rainmaker]

A lot of us undercut to sell faster, which is a perfectly valid reason if we constantly end up filling all of our market slots. Personally, I undercut books almost all the time; after seeing that Goncourt (for one) produces more valuable books than I could put up in the market, it didn't take me long to realize that putting up Light Slash [ADV] for 1/5 off the current price makes it sell almost immediately, while trying to hardheadedly sell for 1% less keeps the book in that slot for often 2-3 days at a time. Same with my crafted equips - less profit quickly is better than hardheadedly gunning for that extra miniscule increase while my inventory fills, forcing me to mass-dismantle them just to make room.

Nothing wrong with undercutting by a margin IMO; for those people that overprice, it's their money =x. IF they want to lose it, why not?

[Krullthor]

I can understand undercutting but sometimes you do get to see some pretty ridiculous stuff, today on market an item i forget wich one that has a fixed price of 7k the next price was 2.5k and the next 1k, this is some pretty heavy undercutting, at least there werent many for sale anyway but i doubt ppl bought the items (if there were any) that were in between the 7k and the 2.5k first and left the lowest ones there lol.

When i need storage space i throw away those items that are saturated and are selling for like 10 gold a piece, i dont see an item with a fixed price of 7k and put my items for sale at 2.5k, if money aint a problem just throw them away cause thats just throwing away money selling stuff like that but ok :)

[StarElf]

The stuff on market that bugs me most is the fairly necessary stuff that gets priced too high. Currently I am running into the issue with Enchant Box (int), I have yet to find any mobs that drop them well and the pricing on my server keeps getting bumped up to 20k each which I definately cannot afford. 200k for 10 boxes is just insane, which means I end up being entirely unable to upgrade my gear. It's a similar issue with Growth Vial (mid). If I knew of a way to farm these it wouldn't bother me much, but as it is now, I am stuck wearing AngorWat gear with insect boxes I cannot use because I cannot afford the stones to enchant the stuff and I know from previous experience that the Graveyard is way to "ouch" to manage in AngorWat gear.

[bakedpotato]

I love the way they design the market in this game. It's something I always dream of ever since I started playing MMO games. Every game I have played thus far always have some kind of Marketplace or should I say a Lag-fest place where people go to sell stuff. I think you all know what I'm talking about. Either way, I think both designs all follow the simple supply & demand chain. Undercutting is part of human nature, I think everybody have done it at least once. Just let people do their things and the market will balance itself out.

[Newell]

Heh, the good old, sit down and be afk for 12 hours a day to sell your stuff in a little box you call a store.

I don't complain about that, a little peeking around and you find some really good deals. In L2 I survived off of buying from shops and turning a profit. People never really undercutted the price, they either lure you by saying it is cheap, or just keep it at a higher rate. All you had to do was switch towns or popular places and start selling your stuff for higher then some botter in the other town.

[HardcoreGamer]

Well, just in case some people didnt notice, the fixed price of a certain item, is actually the cost price of crafting it if you buy the materials at fixed price. So basically undercutting the prices means you are making loses. This principle only works up to lvl 50 equips thou.

[Newell]

Well, just in case some people didnt notice, the fixed price of a certain item, is actually the cost price of crafting it if you buy the materials at fixed price. So basically undercutting the prices means you are making loses. This principle only works up to lvl 50 equips thou.

I have noticed this. Holds true till 50.

[HardcoreGamer]

Still I do wonder why ppl even bother to go beyond the fixed price... not just a few but alot!

[Keats]

I wonder the same, except for storage i don't see any reasons

[HardcoreGamer]

You can use the mail and send to your sub chars, it is way cheaper that way.

[bakedpotato]

You can use the mail and send to your sub chars, it is way cheaper that way.

Exactly. It's much more effective that way in my opinion. I've been sending mails to my sub chars on a regular basis.

[Ferishi]

Maybe they just don't realize that or something, I guess.

[HardcoreGamer]

Well, now who ever reads this do know it.

Plus you can sell more at the market throu sub-chars or "mules" as we call it.

on the side note... walachia weapons are wayyyyy underpriced at Argos now. Heck, even Rakshasa weapons are more expensive >.>

[ziv]

on the side note... walachia weapons are wayyyyy underpriced at Argos now. Heck, even Rakshasa weapons are more expensive >.>
That doesn't mean they're underpriced.Noobies can't use them so they aren't always a replacement for Rakshasa's gear. It's just supply and demand.

[HardcoreGamer]

what I meant by underpriced is according to the cost to craft those weaps =/

[Spydermage]

people who undercut prices will benefit the players who constantly on the look out for cheap stuff. buy cheap sell high.

i bought Autocraft [Beg] x2 at 36k each before, and sold it back at 360k each. no doubt that was a typo error, but whoever is watching the market will profit.

it is the same principle as the economy in the real world.

[Entice]

To the OP:

Seems your understanding of a free market is a little insular. Everyone will weigh their perceptive pros and cons of whatever level they wish to price before doing so. Any peculiar characteristics they have such their inventory space, their opportunity costs, their level, the value their place on a few extra gold will affect their decision as to what is a fair value. So, if you have any gripes about them unfairly pricing the item, then clearly there is an opportunity for an arbitrage profit in your eyes, in which case, you should rejoice and not rant about it here.

[Marisa the Rainmaker]

It seems that when the levels are a bit more evenly spread, the market ends up readjusting itself to cater to the prices. Take Walachias, for example; just a week or two ago they were selling for around 7k a pop, and now they're already back at juat a bit below crafting prices.

[MiaFLSurf]

I mean....the market is going to continue to crahs eveyr day... more users, more giveaways, more gold.... its a natural course of the game.

[Samwise93]

It's just like RL economy took some uppers and hops up and down like a little school girl. Thats just about how quickly game economies flucuate. Thank you AO for the fixed price system to seperate us educated people from chimps and morons. :)

[MiaFLSurf]

Well, its just a shame that some armors used to be about 25k a piece and now you have to sell them for under 5k...

[Newell]

My walachia chain helms sell for alot, and helmets for a ton.

But the low gear sells for more then walachia gear because everyone is still rising, plus those enchant stones are mad cheap.

[Marisa the Rainmaker]

Well, its just a shame that some armors used to be about 25k a piece and now you have to sell them for under 5k...

Usually, when that happens, it's best to wait. Eventually, the flood of people at that armor's level will move on to higher tiers (including some botters), and the price of armors will fluctuate back to a good level. Sell them then and make profits =p.

[Aura]

well i made like 30 +4 lv 50 gauntlet and no one is buyng it...
maybe just too many ppl crafting them or what...
the market rarely runs out

[Ferishi]

Lots of armour crafters dumping all their crafts onto the market I imagine. You simply need to craft too many just to level up.

[leawen]

personally I love when armor sells for cheap prices I can outfit my mercs and not spend a fortune .. as for the reason for this topic in the first .. peeps either to lazy to hit rates when posting it, want to prey on the young and unsure .. or they just want to use it as extra holding space corect me if I am wrong but the value of what ya put in the market decreases as days go buy .. so they better be watching there stashed gear or eles its going to drop in price and get bought up hehe

[HardcoreGamer]

i should gone for gauntlets/shoes/helmet... those are nearly uncontested in terms of prices... Af for armor, the price totally sux till you get anu warrior.

[XaatXuun]

Well, just in case some people didnt notice, the fixed price of a certain item, is actually the cost price of crafting it if you buy the materials at fixed price. So basically undercutting the prices means you are making loses. This principle only works up to lvl 50 equips thou.

I have noticed this. Holds true till 50.

Sorry, got my numbers wrong, leaving text, so it does not confuse what others read later

Yeah for some.
Last night I was looking at the cost to making/crafting life potion [Beg], the fixed price for selling is 16500g ea., the fixed price for making 4500g ea.
The under cutters are under cutting the undercutters that are Undercutting hundreds of other undercutters, that the selling price is now 16g ea. (at the time I was looking at the market):eek:

I still laugh at those selling their plus items way over priced, specially when someone can enchant the same at fixed price at half the cost.:D;)

[HardcoreGamer]

lolz, but you sould be suprised thou. Some people actually see the big number and buy it. I for one sold a +3 Asura Axe for 200k and I loled.

[Ruggan]

Prices are just going to keep going down too, I'd assume.

[XaatXuun]

I am not surprised at all, just shake my head of those that have no clue and continue to encourage such

[Marisa the Rainmaker]

Yeah for some.
Last night I was looking at the cost to making/crafting life potion [Beg], the fixed price for selling is 16500g ea., the fixed price for making 4500g ea.

Really? From my experiences, the fixed price for making one (in Thebes, but it shouldn't matter given fixed prices are all the same) is:

7x Ginseng = 700 Gold
8x Dogwood Fruit = 800 Gold
Batch of 10 for a total of 1500 gold.

That comes out to around 150 ea. for life potions, not 4500. And the fixed price can't be 16500 ea. either given that [Med] life potions are only 3000 each o.o. Did you mean life potion [Adv] instead of [Beg] ^^?

Though it's funny to see Life Potion prices drop to lower than 10 gold because people just do not buy them. I was selling coins to the NPC merchant once and came across a batch of 1200+ life potions [Beg] being sold for 5 gold each, so I ended up buying all of them and unloading all of them along with my gold coins.

Wonder what that NPC does with all of those life potions =S.

[Newell]

He must not mean Beg LP's. If they do sell for under 10 or at 10 I just buy a crap load and spam my characters with them.

P.S. You can sell those life potions at the hospital immediantly instead of carting them around to the mercent with you money coins. Bu, all in the same ^^

[XaatXuun]

After I posted and reread it, I kinda thought the LP was a bit high, and I prolly was looking at Int/Mid or Adv. I did mean to recheck my numbers, but totally spaced it.

I could only find the numbers I wrote on scratch paper, and not my math I did, But I do know the 4500g in material (total) for a batch of 10 was correct, and chances are I inadvertently added another 0 on the scratch, so it may have been 1650 and not 16500, and the 16500 was selling 10, and not ea.. I am updating the patch right now, as soon as that is done, I'll relook at the numbers, and staple it to my forehead, so once I am done playing I can find the paper, or take a screenie of the prices, yeah that may be better then a staple in the forehead.
As I mentioned in the post, I could not find my math, just the numbers I scratched down for reference, I believe my numbers are correct, just may not in the amount, or how I came up with those numbers

And being under my name shows Argos, I figured the readers that actually look at everything would figure which server I get my info from, so I prolly figure on . .emmMmm 5 readers would notice that . . hehe.

I know as a buyer, I love the undercutters, but as a crafter/seller . . curse the Undercutters

yeah I do pretty much the same, when I see prices below 10g, I grab it and sell to merchant.
I have often been tempted to buy all the extremely undercut priced products, and bring the price back up, But still undercut LOL

Added info:

yes, it is obvious I got my numbers from something else :o:o Don't know if you can hear me from down here :D I don't mind being slightly wrong, but I was way off with those numbers. I'll blame that one on the Turkey

After looking again, and checking, I musta been looking at the wrong product.
cost to make 10 Life potion[Low] @ fixed prices = 1500g
Life Potion [Low] Fixed price = 1500g ea.
to get your Gold back = 150g each, any profit 151+ gold