Mana Drain and Mana Burn

[instakiller]

I dont see mana drain and mana burn used a lot in FL but i think they are useful. You burn the melee mercs mana so they cant cast there spells so u dont have to cast holy gaurd on ur front mercs. That means ur monk has mor AP to deal with stunners. Isn't that a good strategy?

Give Feedback on it plz.

[Jimsta]

Some people I know tested it out. I think they got mana burn to level 40, it did about half the vikings mp in just 1 mana burn.
Only drawback to using it is that since you've used your turn with manaburn, you can't mana seal.

Havn't tested with mana drain though.

[aphrodite]

mana burn+mana drain, their row will have no mana to cast
i dun think u ahve to worry abt monks holy guarding to protect themselves from freeze when their vikings got no mana to freeze either and their other chars won't have mana to cast

they won't have mana to use any spells, u wont b able to use spells on their front row for a few turns, which u think is worse?

[Balathorn]

I tested this and went an extra mile by using a prophet and princess to debuff the melee/ranged attacks; debuffs were at 30ish while mana drain/burn was at 45-50. Conclusion: didn't work for me because of various reasons, the main ones being:

1. The basic attack damage is insane (even debuffed) when they have a prophet (almost always) and will (sometimes)
2. You need at least 4 turns to drain one melee line and you can't afford it because:
a. You want to meteor or mana trap on turn 4 or 2 respectively
b. you want to mana seal on turn 3 since you get more mileage out of it.

[instakiller]

aw ok thx for the infos.

[methane]

In Pvp maybe not so. Exo and witch skills are too precious to be wasted on burning mana. Just get a viking and freeze them for 2turns. It totally disable them and make sure you seal their monk of they start doing irritating things like holyguard the frozen ones. In pve mana burn is the only way for exo to hit air so its viable.

[Teesa]

I feel that mana burn is useful, see that annoying X, reduce his mana to zero and he wont freezing X....

[chocomog]

mana burn is no good because you can't seal. seal is pretty much priceless.

mana drain is ok, but i prefer meteor.

[jesada89237]

Mana drain and mana burn is pretty useless in PvP with the increased mana.

[LtKillroy]

Its not that these skills are bad, you just have better alternatives. You might be able to devise a build that makes it work, but it probably won't work all that well.

[Woltar]

Personally, I tried burning the mana of the front row and it was a waste of time. Much easier to kill them than spending X turns getting their mana to 0.

[Kode]

I've seen one fight of Kiza of Mycenae in WKC. He disabled sethed line of spears in one turn using mana drain twice. I was like wtf, I want that too. (Yes, brutal/seth use mana to act, so no mana = no acting.)

[Locksley]

I've had that too, someone using mana drain+mana burn on my will line. Not as effective, but by 3 turns, 2 spears+axe(M) no more mana. No freeze axe, no lightning spear. thankfully, my midline still hurts my foes w/o mana.

But I still win. ^ ^

[AtsushiHayami]

well mana burn works fine its a good skill thou you need holy guard,because the enemy will always have some mana left like it or not ....

[Krullthor]

Might be good skills but the other skills of the witch and exo are better in my opinion, youll loose quite some dmg by having a witch that doesn't use meteor, and an exo that won't use mana seal will give the other team alot of room to remove stun counters with the monk, cast meteor on your team etc.

[Plum]

Might be good skills but the other skills of the witch and exo are better in my opinion, youll loose quite some dmg by having a witch that doesn't use meteor, and an exo that won't use mana seal will give the other team alot of room to remove stun counters with the monk, cast meteor on your team etc.

or use a witch to recharge the just drained mana if you focus on drain and not on mana seal xD

[Aura]

waste too many turns on drain mana....
it is deadly....it is more easier to just focus on 1 unit...or aoe

[Keats]

Don't think the mana burns and others are useful
Just mana recharge with the witch and the opponent will have spend 3 turns for nothing

[ziv]

Why do you have to use mana burn for the mana drain? At level 60 it deals 950 damage in a CROSS pattern! Isn't it a decent AoE damage spell?

[Keats]

Mana seal is better to use than manaburns :/ mana burn would delay it

[ziv]

Mana seal is better to use than manaburns :/ mana burn would delay it

But wouldn't it end up dealing more damage than a healer could heal on top of the mana drain?

[Ferishi]

950 damage in a cross pattern isn't particularly good for a 3 cooldown spell, I think.

[AtsushiHayami]

mana burn sure helps agains melle merc but another solution to this is the Exo's Mana Seal thou it Last only for the next round about mana,Mana Drain its not that bad but,mana Burn drains a little more mana than drain

[x10a]

I?ve heard/read 2 ways so far to counter Seth?s Will builds:

1). Mana Trap ? delays Seth?s

2). Mana Drain/Burn ? decrease the Spearmen/Rifles Willed line so that line has no mana ? thus no attack

I was wondering if I could get an expert?s opinion on this:

1). Right now I have lvl 21 Speedcast and lvl 21 Mana Seal on my Exorcist. I was wondering if I should spend remaining points on Mana Burn (to combo with my witch) or increase the level on Speedcast and Mana Seal

2). Right now I have lvl 60 Meteor on my witch and was wondering if I should spend remaining points on Mana Drain (combo with my Exo) or Mana Trap


Basically, looking for a good way to counter Seth?s Will build (especially on Gunners, since I can Broken Spear Spearmen at least) - Thanks

[cfk]

Scroll of Dispel. Cheap and does exactly what you need it to at cost of little AP.

[x10a]

hmm good idea

in that case would u suggest maxing speedcast / mana seal for more caster turns and more dmg to their casters?

[wraith75]

I'd like to know too.

And does mana seal damage the casters, and if so, by how much ?
Same question for the mercs targeted by mana trap.

Thank you.

[Flexor]

I?ve heard/read 2 ways so far to counter Seth?s Will builds:

1). Mana Trap ? delays Seth?s

2). Mana Drain/Burn ? decrease the Spearmen/Rifles Willed line so that line has no mana ? thus no attack

I was wondering if I could get an expert?s opinion on this:

1). Right now I have lvl 21 Speedcast and lvl 21 Mana Seal on my Exorcist. I was wondering if I should spend remaining points on Mana Burn (to combo with my witch) or increase the level on Speedcast and Mana Seal

2). Right now I have lvl 60 Meteor on my witch and was wondering if I should spend remaining points on Mana Drain (combo with my Exo) or Mana Trap


Basically, looking for a good way to counter Seth?s Will build (especially on Gunners, since I can Broken Spear Spearmen at least) - Thanks

Mana burn is worthless,i'll explain why.

1.) the damage is too little
2.) like many said,u can't mana seal,and that's exo's real forty

In Free League,Mana Drain at level 100 upgrade,lvl 60 with high charms,decent equips drains 199X mana from a mid row of spears and a viking.If possible to double drain a turn,that seth'ed row is most likely out of mana,and they are screw for the remaining turn of seth'will,for better confirmation u can always check with lvl 100s on how much mana they had on their going-to-seth merc in free league,im quite confident most of the gunners/melee are at 4k and below mana.

[myrdreon]

Dont underestimate mana drain so much. With an exo's speed cast a witch can throw out quite a few before round 4.

Whenever the first turn (1 merc available to use) got to use his witch, my melee were out of mana in turn 2/3... From what i could tell its like flame sword, no cooldown make it insane to spam. Especially with an exo for speed cast to back it up, she on rare occasion can drain the exo before he can mana seal... tough that requires some preventive purification scrolls or getting [near] the maximum AP in each turn.
Another option, you can buy mana piercing scrolls on fixed price at market, that -MDEF used right at the start really ups the witch's potential. It costs a use of purification/awakening, but if you can prevent mana seal/freeze for the rest of the fight that way its a scroll well spend

As for meteor; dont use it on round 4 if you can wait a bit. With a team of mostly melee and a prophet, the prophet can heal back the damage before fatique kicks in (2k damage done, 600-1k healing each turn...). Much better to use mana trap or keep using mana drain.. but as i said, if you can wait. If you arent sure if your witch survives the next round or if it can take down a merc, then going for meteor is likely the better option.

[Zpirit]

From what i could tell its like flame sword, no cooldown make it insane to spam.

All spells have cooldowns, Mana Drain and Flame Sword are both 2 turn cooldowns.

Actually don't think there's a single spell that's 1 turn cooldown.

[Prima]

It's worth mentioning that these 2 spells might be situational, however that's no reason not raising them. An exo really only needs 81 points in his 2 main skills, so you have quite a lot of skillpoints left, especially if you use potential vials. The witch has a bit more variety, depending on how high you want to raise her mana recharge. At the moment i have 60 meteor, 11 mana trap, 15 recharge and the rest in drain.

Just because there are better alternatives does not mean you shouldn't keep the option open

[myrdreon]

All spells have cooldowns, Mana Drain and Flame Sword are both 2 turn cooldowns.

Actually don't think there's a single spell that's 1 turn cooldown.

My apologies, bad wording. What i meant was, you can cast it as soon as the merc is allowed to act. Not to sure about Flame Sword there btw (never got swordman activation in round 1 so far), but even the very first round with just 1 merc use is allowed to use Mana Drain already.

[Zpirit]

My apologies, bad wording. What i meant was, you can cast it as soon as the merc is allowed to act. Not to sure about Flame Sword there btw (never got swordman activation in round 1 so far), but even the very first round with just 1 merc use is allowed to use Mana Drain already.

If you go 2nd, you start with 2 mana charges on your first turn.

You don't see people Flame Sword on 1st turn because it's very rare for Swordsman to have a first turn. (you can not guard to a different merc on the first turns) Not to mention even if Swordie do get a first turn, it's a huge waste to flame sword so early.

To stay on topic, my 2 cents about getting mana burn is to get it.

Max speedcast, max mana burn and rest in to mana seal(get 10 first).

Mana seal has never missed for me so I don't see the point of going past 10ish which will be 20+ once you're over level 100 using +10 charms.

Having mana burn allows you to empty a melee row in a single turn when combined with mana drain, causing a seth line to lose up to 3 actions and if they don't have monk ready the very next turn, it's almost game over.

[sarduarkar]

I heard that mana seal DOT can be pretty nice when maxed. Although the option to mana burn is nice, wouldn't it be preferable to increase the dmg of the bread and butter skill you will be using 95% of the time? There are other ways to counter seth/melee builds as it is.

[Zpirit]

I heard that mana seal DOT can be pretty nice when maxed. Although the option to mana burn is nice, wouldn't it be preferable to increase the dmg of the bread and butter skill you will be using 95% of the time? There are other ways to counter seth/melee builds as it is.

If you have maxed mana seal and speedcast, your exo will actually run out of mana before some of the mid-length fights are over. Not worth the risk for 400 more damage per cast. (level 60 versus level 10 after factoring mdefense)

[sarduarkar]

good to know... ^^

[Flexor]

If you have maxed mana seal and speedcast, your exo will actually run out of mana before some of the mid-length fights are over. Not worth the risk for 400 more damage per cast. (level 60 versus level 10 after factoring mdefense)

VERY true

mana burn is actually pretty good for mob aoe if u have tried,since exor is a single target hitter.

[LostCause]

All spells have cooldowns, Mana Drain and Flame Sword are both 2 turn cooldowns.

Actually don't think there's a single spell that's 1 turn cooldown.

Yes there is actually one skill in this game that has a 1 turn cooldown. It is our almighty monk and his awakening.

[Flexor]

so mana drain+mana burn is the best counter against seth for now?

[cfk]

Scroll of Dispel

[myrdreon]

That is indeed true, mana seal can get a nice DoT damage going (1500+ maxed with charm and +magic lvl sword stat). Most just dont bother since the other exo's speed cast will almost negate it anyway (and completely in a turn or 2).

By the way, after testing with flame sword i now know my confusion; it works the same as Awakening. When say your swordman has 299AP and enough mana, you can (trough guarding) have him hit flame sword twice in the same round just like casting awakening twice in the same round.
Because i always use my swordman like this (great spike on BT/viking) i never really noticed the cooldown since he isnt used the following turns.

I hope to get a try on my witch later (busy on school atm so barely playing) to see if mana drain can be used in the same way. Would give some great potential for witch and possible negate Meteor all together for pvp.

[Flexor]

Scroll of Dispel

tht removes both positive and negative right,wat if ur a dot built.

[myrdreon]

Been testing a bit, and its unfortunatly impossible to use mana drain 2x in a single turn.
What does however happen is that occasionally (cant find out why it happens, sometimes it does, sometimes it wont) mana drain is usable 2 turns in a row and other moments its on cooldown. No specific relation can be found regarding AP or skill used before (since that skill was always mana drain to try and get 2). Kinda the same as your viking occasionally getting to fire freezing axe directly the round after it ended and otherwise having the normal 3 rounds cooldown.

Mana trap is starting to do nice damage tough. ATM lvl50 upgrade with lvl21 mana trap is doing 80-120 dot hits (=mana drained as well) each turn for about 8 rounds.

If you are thinking about countering seth without using a scroll, i'd pre-cast mana trap and then mana drain whenever its up. Guaranteed to have them drained by the time mana trap is over... just watch out for purification scrolls.


Mana burn is also nice, now its + based. Its reaching levels that if i dont mana seal but use it on mid row and fire some aoe's/mana drain, my opponent will HG his mid rather then his front.


Mana seal is also missing rarely at 10 atm (have no charms or +magic sword yet) so i have to agree on getting 60 speedcast/60 manaburn / 20 mana seal (10 mana seal on first lvls, and the last 10 on the last lvls when speed/burn are maxed).

[Kode]

Those cooldowns are magic tokens. Accumulate up to 4, 1 per turn. Skills are using them. If a skill has cooldown of 2, it will take out 2 tokens. That means, if you don't use any skill for 4 turns straight, you can use twice skill of cooldown 2 in one turn.

[Fafnir]

Using Mana Burn on an exorcist isnt worth it most of the time id say because you lose the ability to seal!
With a witch though i think for lvl 100+ pvp the mana drain is more useful than the meteor. Why?
1st) It uses 2 cooldowns only so by turn 4 you can fully drain a melee line (viking,pirate,spartan,spear even exo)
2nd) Meteor does hardly any damage after you have divine gears, it barely tickles the mercs and with concentration it gets nearly healed completely in the first turns
3rd) After you drained twice you can then save the cooldowns for a meteor as a nice addition when the DoT starts kicking in to finish off wounded mercs

Especially now that the Ice Ridge is so overpowered and lots of strategies simply rely on that fact, it might be worth draining, burning the viking before he kills your tanks ^^

[C3nsoredAx3]

which is better now?